LINGUIST List 6.857
Fri Jun 23 1995
Sum: Palindromes
Editor for this issue: Anthony M. Aristar <aristartam2000.tamu.edu>
Directory
Dr. Manfred Immler, Sum: Palindromes-2
Message 1: Sum: Palindromes-2
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 1995 16:29:19 Sum: Palindromes-2
From: Dr. Manfred Immler <Manfred.Immlermch.sni.de>
Subject: Sum: Palindromes-2
Dear friends and co-fans of palindromes!!
This is my second summary of palindromes. I'd like
to elicit as many answers as possible from more people
of Italian, French and Spanish tongue, to find even
more palindromes hitherto unknown to me.
Thanks!
Manfred
************************
Excuse my bad Italian, French and Spanish:
*** Chers amies et amis linguistes,
il y a quelques semaines, j'avais publie' a l'internet une demande pour
trouver des palindromes dans autant de langues que possible, tels que
"Esope reste ici et se repose". J'ai recu un tres grand nombre de
reponses et d'exemplaires, surtout en anglais et en allemand, et je me
demande s'il n'existe pas aussi en francais beaucoup plus de
palindromes que je ne connais. Aussi je voudrais renouveler ma question
a tous si, peut-etre inspire's par les palindromes que voici dans cette
e-mail, vous ne connaissez pas plus palindromes et si vous pourriez me
les envoyer par e-mail pour que l'on puisse les publier ensuite pour
tout le monde dans la liste LINGUIST.
Merci Manfred
*** Cari amici e amiche,
sono un fanatico del fenomeno linguistico che si chiama 'palindromo' -
questo sono parole o frase entere che anche hanno un senso se si li
legge a rovescio - come per esempio in Inglese "rats live on no evil
star" o "A man, a plan, a canal - Panama!". Ho ricevuto molte risposte
molto interessanti, pero molto poche in Italiano. Pero' penso che
l'italiano per su struttura ortografica deve permettere particolarmente
leggermente la formazione di palindromi. Percio' vi prego, si conoscete
palindromi o libri sopra palindromi o con palindromi, per favore,
scrivetemeli, li pubblicaro dopo in un altro e-mail per tutti.
Grazie per vostro aiuto!
Manfred
*** Queridos amigos y amigas en el mundo de las lenguas:
quizas conoceis el fenomena de los 'palindromos', como por ejemplo
"dabale arroz a la zorra el abbad". Hace unas semanas envi una e-mail a
la lista LINGUIST, preguntando a los demas en la lista si conocen
cuantos mas posibles palindromos en cuantas mas posibles lenguas.
Recibi' muchas respuestas con muchas frases palindromas muy bonitas,
pero me sorprende que aparentemente hay pocas en espanol. Pienso al
contrario que debe haber muchas, dado la estructura relativamente
sencilla de la ortografia espanola. Por eso, quisiera preguntaros otra
vez si conoceis mas palindromos en espanol, y os pediria enviarmelas a
mi direccion de e-mail para que pueda publicarlas despues para todos
los otros interesados por la lista LINGUIST.
Gracias!
Manfred
************************
Several weeks ago I had the lucky idea of asking over the Internet for
palindromes in the hope of receiving as many as possible new
palindromes I did not know yet, and I was overwhelmed by the many
answers and beautiful specimens I received, many of them very amusing
and very interesting - and some so beautiful long lists, too! I will
now publish for all of you the postings I received about palindromes,
with only some minor editing - as I do not want to have too much work
with it. (As you will certainly understand, I will not go to the
trouble of eliminating the 'duplicates' among the many palindromes
communicated to me.)
And I hope that this first round will inspire many more readers to
think about palindromes which they did not yet send to us, and to mail
them so we can post them to the rest of the LINGUIST community in a new
round later on.
What I would be interested in PARTICULARLY, are more palindromes in
French, Italian and Spanish; I am convinced there must be many many in
these languages since their structure should allow that there should be
MANY palindromes possible; but up to now I only know few.
many many repetitions, you will forgive me
I singled this one out because it is so wunderfully natural:
Si Tito ya muere de reuma, muere de reuma y otitis. (If Tito is already
dying
from rheum, he's dying from rheum and otitis)
French:
elu par cette crapule
et Luc colporte trop l'occulte
Spanish:
ojo rojo
[a red eye]
German, with a little defect:
s[ch]one dein tier stets, reit nie den o[ch]s
(always spare your animal, never ride the ox)
>From djk1midway.uchicago.edu Wed Apr 12 04:05:47 1995
To: Manfred.Immlermch.sni.de (Dr. Manfred Immler)
X-Lines: 130
Status: RO
Thanks again for your reply. I have my books here with me now, and I
can give you some more palindromes, including some more good ones.
>From that book ("Madam I'm Adam and other palindromes", by William
Irvine) (some of these I gave you before):
Stella won no wallets
Stab nail at ill Italian bats
We seven, Eve, sew
Egad! No bondage!
Reflog a golfer
Sit on a potato pan, Otis
Lager, sir, is regal
Paganini: din in a gap
Senile felines
Trafalgar rag: La Fart
Egad! An adage!
Kayak salad -- Alaska yak
Must sell at tallest sum
Ma is a nun, as I am
So, Ida, adios!
No lemons, no melon
Lay a wallaby baby ball away, Al
"Naomi, sex at noon taxes!" I moan
Now, Ned, I am a maiden nun; Ned, I am a maiden won
Eros? Sidney, my end is sore!
Yell upset a cider: predicates pulley
God! A red nugget! A fat egg under a dog!
Tarzan raised Desi Arnaz' rat
Stop! Murder us not, tonsured rumpots!
May a moody baby doom a yam?
Ned, go gag Ogden
Gustav Klimt milk vats --- ug!
Sis, Sargasso moss a grass is
Gnu dung
Ah, Satan sees Natasha!
Al lets Della call Ed Stella
A dog! A panic in a pagoda!
Camus sees sumac
Star comedy by Democrats
Denim axes examined
Step on no pets
A slut nixes sex in Tulsa
Never odd or even
Bombard a drab mob
I, zany Nazi
Draw, o coward!
Laminated E.T. animal
Sh, Tom sees moths
Party boobytrap
OED or rodeo?
A famous one by Alistair Reid:
T. Eliot, top bard, notes putrid tang emanating, is sad. "I'd assign it
a name: gnat dirt upset on drab pot toilet."
The following are from "An Almanac of Words at Play" by Willard Espy:
Straw? No, too stupid a fad. I put soot on warts.
Are we not drawn onward, we few, drawn onward to a new era?
Do nine men interpret? Nine med, I nod.
Was it a bar or a bat I saw? (by Dmitri Borgmann)
Norma is as selfless as I am, Ron (by Martin Gardner)
He goddam mad dog, eh? (by James Thurber)
Doc, note, I dissent. A fast never prevents a fatness. I diet on
cod.
(by Penelope
Gilliat)
This is a poem by J. A. Lindon where each line, and the title, is a
palindrome:
HA! ON, ON, O NOAH!
Eel-fodder, stack-cats red do flee,
Unglad, I tar a tidal gnu,
I tip away a wapiti,
Ewer of miry rim for ewe.
(It doesn't make a lot of sense, but it's reasonably grammatical.) But
better than that is the following poem, where not each line, but the
whole thing, not including the title (450 letters!) is a palindrome.
It
was written by Howard W. Bergerson, and it makes suprising sense:
THE FADED BLOOMERS' RHAPSODY
Flee to me, remote elf --- Sal a dewan desired;
Now is a Late-Petal era.
We fade: lucid Iris, red Rose of Sharon;
Goldenrod a silly ram ate.
Wan olives teem (ah, Satan lives!);
A star eyes pale Roses.
Revel, big elf on a mayonnaise man ---
A tinsel baton-dragging nice elf too.
Lisp, oh sibyl, dragging Nola along;
Niggardly bishops I loot.
Fleecing niggard notables Nita names,
I annoy a Man of Legible Verse.
So relapse, ye rats,
As evil Natasha meets Evil
On a wet, amaryllis-adorned log.
Norah's foes' orders (I ridiculed a few) are late, Pet.
Alas, I wonder! Is Edna wed?
Alas --- flee to me, remote elf.
And the following is a mock interview with "Professor R. Osseforp,
holder of the Emor D. Nilap Chair in Palindromology at Harvard", where
the answer to each question is a palindrome:
"And what about your new novel, could you tell me the title?"
"Dennis Sinned."
"Intriguing. What is the plot?"
"Dennis and Edna sinned."
"I see. Is there more to it than that?"
"Dennis Krats and Edna Stark sinned."
"Now it all becomes clear. Tell me, what kind of car are you driving
nowadays?"
"A Toyota."
"Naturally. And how about your colleague, Prof. Nustad?"
"Nustad? A Datsun."
"And his wife May?"
"Aha! May? A Yamaha!"
That's about all I have for now. I actually have some palindromes in
other languages, like Spanish, somewhere, but I should be getting off
e-mail now. Good luck with your palindroming!
Dave Kathman
djk1midway.uchicago.edu
>From GA5123SIUCVMB.SIU.EDU Fri Apr 14 01:28:41 1995
To: manfred.immlermch.sni.de
Status: RO
X-Lines: 12
While you wait for the larger file, enjoy this palindrome in Latin
that -- purely by coincidence -- was given to me today by a student:
In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni.
My Latin is far from perfect, but I think the translation is
"We go around in a circle at night and are consumed by fire."
I will try to send you the others soon.
-----------------------------------
Lee Hartman ga5123siucvmb.siu.edu
Department of Foreign Languages
Southern Illinois University
Carbondale, IL 62901-4521 U.S.A.
>From christof Tue May 2 13:42:30 1995
To: immler
Cc: christof
Status: RO
X-Lines: 21
Hi Manfred:
thanks for a copy of your fantastic compilation of international
palindromes. Let me add some additional ones, found by myself - at
least I dont remember to have read them elsewhere (fragments are known,
of course).
English:
Dracula's Alu-Card.
German:
Vita: Genie, sei negativ!
(Curriculum: genius, be negative!)
'N Hit (Arie): "Heirat' ihn!"
(A hit, aria: get married to him!)
Krokodil trug Gurt (Lido-Kork!).
(crocodile wore belt ...)
Reh (ein Eistier?) trug Tim relativ vital. Er, mit Gurt, reit' sie
nie her.
Nie flog Dir, Dame, Madrid-Golf ein!
Niest ein Gnu, soll Losung nie "T" sein!
(the following ones might not seem politically correct ...)
Adi: "Tim, lieg' nun geil mit Ida!"
(Adolph: Tim, now ly lewd with Ida!)
Masturbier'! Reib' Rut': Sam'!
(masturbate! rub penis: sperma!)
>From HUETTNERcgi.com Mon May 8 20:15:10 1995
To: Manfred.Immlermch.sni.de
X-Vmsmail-To: NRC%"Manfred.Immlermch.sni.de"
X-Lines: 5
Status: RO
You *must* already have this, but I didn't see it in your summary: The
answer
I always heard to "Madam, I'm Adam" is Eve's reply, "Name no one man."
Right?
Enjoyed the list,
-- Alison
Huettner
>From abbottbpilot.msu.edu Mon May 8 21:58:51 1995
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: Manfred.Immlermch.sni.de (Dr. Manfred Immler)
X-Lines: 6
Status: RO
Finally I remember the name of a book of palindromes that maybe nobody
told
you about yet -- it's called "So Many Dynamos". (I haven't seen it,
and I
can't remember where I heard about it -- I made a note of it because my
nephew loves palindromes too.)
>From smburtheartland.bradley.edu Mon May 8 22:00:43 1995
To: Manfred.Immlermch.sni.de
Reply-To: smburtheartland.bradley.edu
X-Lines: 19
Status: RO
Hello, Manfred Immler!
I missed your original request, but just read your April 24
posting to LINGUIST with great pleasure.
I was recently given a small paperback of palindromes with
illustrations:
William Irvine. 1992. If I had a Hi-Fi.New York: Dell Publishing.
(666 Fifth Avenue, NY,NY 10103).
This same author has apparently also published a book called
Madam, I'm Adam, and a calendar entitled Senile Felines,
neither of which I have seen.
susan Meredith Burt
>From accuostofing.edu.uy Mon May 8 22:58:07 1995
To: Manfred.Immlermch.sni.de
X-Lines: 18
Status: RO
I saw your mail on LINGUIST list.
There is a very famous palindrom in spanish that says:
'Dabale arroz a la zorra el abad'
(which means something like: 'the abad gave rice to the fox')
For instance, the name of the president of Argentina is a palindrom:
Carlos MENEM
Bye!
Pablo Accuosto
Facultad de Ingenieria
Universidad de la Republica
Montevideo - Uruguay
accuostfing.edu.uy
>From jolaaksocc.helsinki.fi Tue May 9 11:31:18 1995
X-Sender: jolaaksokruuna
To: Manfred.Immlermch.sni.de, karvonendomlang.fi
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Lines: 19
Status: RO
The Finnish book of palindrome poetry that Pirjo Karvonen referred to
was written by two young men called Simo
Frangen and Pasi Heikura. The name of the book was Finnish and
Swedish:
"Retki - Dikter" (the first Finnish part could be translated "Trip" or
even "Picnic" - "Ausflug" could be a good translation counterpart in
German; the Swedish part, of course, means "poems"). I'm sorry I can't
remember the publisher, but it was one of the biggest Finnish ones, and
the book probably appeared in 1989.
Simo Frangen and Pasi Heikura also belong to a rock (?) group called
"Alivaltiosihteeri" (Under-Secretary of State) with a weekly radio
programme of their own. In the programme, there are always two
"official palindromes of the week".
------- Johanna Laakso <Johanna.LaaksoHelsinki.FI> -------------
------ Helsingin yliopisto, Suomalais-ugrilainen laitos ---------
-- University of Helsinki, Department of Finno-Ugrian Studies ---
>From SUSANNEBWordPerfect.com Tue May 9 12:39:31 1995
X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1
To: Manfred.Immlermch.sni.de
X-Lines: 5
Status: RO
Lieber Herr Dr. Immler, kennen sie dieses ?
Leg in eine so helle Hose nie'n Igel.
Falls ich noch ein paar niederlandische finde, schicke ich sie auch
>From soerencphling.dk Tue May 9 17:21:41 1995
X-Sender: soerenrask
To: Manfred.Immlermch.sni.de
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Lines: 3
Status: RO
Dear Dr. Immler,
here's one for you in Danish:
regninger `bills'
>From mjuditzccwf.cc.utexas.edu Sun May 14 21:31:34 1995
To: manfred.immlermch.sni.de
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Lines: 7
Status: RO
kennen sie
leg in eine so helle hose nie 'n igel
schon?
mark juditz
>From POULIQUEmacollamh.ucd.ie Tue May 16 21:44:56 1995
To: manfred.Immlermch.sni.de
X-Envelope-To: manfred.Immlermch.sni.de
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Mac v2.02
Priority: normal
X-Lines: 13
Status: RO
Hi,
Here are a few more french palindromes that maybe you haven't got
yet:
Leon n'osa rever a son noel.
Toi, Roger, epele Le Pere Goriot.
et la marine va, papa, venir a Malte.
N'a-t-elle pas ote cet os a Pelletan?
(sorry if you had them!)
Good luck!
Dept of Linguistics, ucd, ireland
pouliquemacollamh.ucd.ie
>From EOBGCCUNYVM.CUNY.EDU Thu May 18 15:00:24 1995
To: Manfred Immler <Manfred.Immlermch.sni.de>
Status: RO
X-Lines: 13
I have your extensive report on palindromes at hand. It apparently
goes
without saying that palindromes are products of written rather than
spoken
language (though there is one provocative comment about a backwards
tape
of Hungarian). Nearly all palindromes, therefore, seem to occur in
alphabetic languages, reversing the order of letters (and freely
altering
spaces, caps, etc.). There are, however, two instances of
"palindromes"
that reverse the order of words ("You can cage a swallow..." and "Man
values God..."). Nobody comments on this major difference - is either
considered a palindrome.
The one Japanese palindrome also reflects the writing system (or a
part
of it), reversing the order of syllabic characters.
Do any of your references comment on this aspect of palindromes?
Eleanor
>From Manfred.Immlermch.sni.de Wed May 24 18:17:52 1995
To: EOBGCCUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Cc: manfred.immlermch.sni.de
X-Lines: 32
Status: RO
Hello Elinor,
thanks for your mail on my palindrome collection. I was pleased,
how many people are interested in palindrome, and also, how
many were willing to contribute to my collection. It has become
a wonderfully big collection, but I am sure there are even more
palindromes around in the world. The second "round' of
answers I received upon my posting was not as copious as I had hoped,
especialy I hoped to receive more from Italian, french and spanish.
To answer your comment: must people seem to automatically assume
that palindromes refer to letters as units, not words, and
personally I think that "Palin-sentences" (as the pseudonymous author
Battus writes in his book mentioned in my files calls them)
are much less interesting than "true, letter-based palindromes".
But you are right in insisting that palindromes terribly depend on
the writing system you are in, and what astonishes me most is the fact
that acoustic palindromes do not even interest me as much as written
(as for instance in German "falsch" (wrong) vs. "Schlaf" (sleep)).
What also astonishes me: why are there so few "heteropalindromes",
i.e.
sentences which, when read from behind result in ANOTHER meaningful
sentence of the same language. These, too, should occur, and
should be interesting.
Do you have an idea why palindromes should be fascinating people
at all? I don't, but I would like to know that.
Manfred
>From ewb2cornell.edu Tue May 30 00:01:16 1995
X-Sender: ewb2postoffice.mail.cornell.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: Manfred.Immlermch.sni.de
Status: RO
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Dear Dr. Immler,
Thank you for the fine long collection of palindromes which you sent
to the Linguist List, and which I immediately retrieved from the
Listserv program. I wanted to inform you that a poet and literary
scholar in Zagreb, Dubravka Oraic' Tolic', has written an entire
poem in five cantos of palindromic lines, entitled _Palindromska
apokalipsa_
(Edicije Durieux, Zagreb 1993). She began writing it in 1981 and
found that it was a prophecy of war in the coming palindromic year,
1991; and war did in fact come then.
A few lines from the end:
(Roza razor...)
KAL
BOL
OBLAK
Idi!
Vidi!
"(Pink destruction...)
DIRT
PAIN
CLOUD
Come!
See!"
Yours,
Wayles Browne, Assoc. Prof. of Linguistics
Dept. of Modern Languages and Linguistics, Morrill Hall
Cornell University
Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A.
tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h)
e-mail ewb2cornell.edu (1989 to 1993 was: jn5jcornella.bitnet //
jn5jcornella.cit.cornell.edu)
>From mutcompling.hu-berlin.de Wed May 31 18:00:38 1995
To: Manfred.Immlermch.sni.de
Cc: mutcompling.hu-berlin.de
Status: RO
X-Lines: 23
O L L A H,
Ein Esel lese nie, Rehe eher, Palindromedare redo erademordnilaP.
Neream, ich Esel lese Chimaeren.
So nur habe ich die Palindrometen der Inder, die Pali trompeteten und
nach Rom
kieloben fuhren und andere Maeren erzaehlt, weil ich Chimaere, weil ich
Neream
bin.
Ich, und dies habe ich wirklich erlebt, nicht bloss erzaehlt, ich
Chimaere, ach,
lass endlich mal normale Rede deine sein und nicht schisen ich, war mal
in Brno
und nicht in Nilreb, denn durch Berlin fliesst der Nil nur, wenn die
Reben an
seinen Ufern wuchern. Da war ich in Bruenn bei einem Maler, der hat
mich gemalt
so uebers Haupt und so nur ueberhaupt habe ich seither rote Backen und
gruene
Nasen, gerade als ein Apfel, dieser Maler zeigte mir ein Tuch oder ein
Papier
oder eine Pappe oder so Nil und Oder, in dessen Ecken hatte er Woerter
in
verschiedenen Sprachen geschrieben, so dass sie Sinn und Unsinn
miteinander
machten, je nachdem, wie der Betrachter das Tuch faltete und wendete.
Leider
erinnere ich mich nur an zwei Woerter: 'Amt' und 'Tma'. Das erklaerte
er so:
Wer in ein deutsches Amt geht, denn 'Amt' ist das deutsche Wort fuer
diesen Ort,
der erfaehrt dort Finsternis, das haette er vorher merken koennen, wenn
er das
Wort 'Amt' richtig gelesen haette, naemlich so, und er drehte das Tuch
so, dass
aus 'Amt' 'Tma' wurde, dem tcheschischen Wort fuer 'Finsternis'.
Palindrome fand ich auch in einer Ausstellung von Andre Thomkins, der
selber
eine Menge, auch aus verschiedenen Sprachen zusammengesetzt hat. Von
ihm hat
Enzensberger einige in einem schoenen Buch ueber viele verschiedene
Gedichtformem veroeffentlicht, auch ein Wort, das nicht nur von hinten
und vorn
sondern auch von oben und unten zu lesen ist, was ich hier nicht
nachmachen
kann, oder den Bildschirm kopfstellen?
Die anderen Palindrome von Andre Thomkins:
'dreh magiezettel um amulette zeig am herd'
'reizherd erhitzt ihre drehzier'
'dreh mit forelle teller oft im herd'
'reflexelfer'
'oh cet Echo'.
Angaben zu dem Buch:
Andreas Thalmeyer.
Das Wasserzeichen der Poesie
oder die Kunst und das Vergnuegen, Gedichte zu lesen.
Berlin, 1985, Verlag Volk und Welt.
Ob es den Verlag noch gibt, weiss ich nicht.
Beste Gruesse Hartmut
Andre Thomkins hat auch diese wunderbare Berufsbezeichnung fuer sich
selbst (als
'Palindromisten') gefunden:
Retroworter ('retro-worder' or 'backwards-worder')
M. Immler